• Quokka@quokk.au
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    1 month ago

    Heather Wells bit, kicked and spat at staff as she reportedly attempted to open the front cabin door mid-flight

    Yeah, nah. Stick her down with super glue if you have to at that point.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      even in the article they try to slant it like “poor karen!” and it’s annoying.

      Even if you were to assume that she was having some sort of mental break down or something- which is entirely possible- You still have to maintain the physical safety of yourself and the other passengers on the plane first and foremost. though I’m a little surprised they don’t have zip ties or handcuffs on board for unruly passengers… or, uh… .something more than duct tape…

      • MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I think they had zip cuffs, they just used the duct tape to keep her in the seat and keep her from spitting. They made the right call, and that lady definitely needs some kind of mental health intervention.

        • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          I disagree on the duct tape of the mouth. There needs to be a better way to handle that than making it harder for someone to breath. Where they keep the zip cuffs, they should probably have a spit mask or something.

          • MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Yeah I agree. Hell they probably could’ve just tossed an n95 on her face to stop the spitting. Let her scream until she loses steam.

  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    Airplanes need to start having a “brig” like boats. This taping people down business is silly.

    Edit: I love how people are seriously responding to this bit of poop-time wisdom.

    • Red_October@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Around 30 years ago, American Airlines realized that by removing a single olive from every passenger’s salad, they would save what amounts today to about $100,000 annually due to reduced weight. They did that.

      Do you think they’re going to remove seats and install a brig, or are they just going to make sure every flight has a half a roll of duct tape?

      • iampivot@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        They should remove those magazines that always litters the seat pockets. Must weigh a ton per flight.

        • whatdis@lemmynsfw.com
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          1 month ago

          Pretty sure they have… I haven’t seen a full skymall in ages. I think they still have the much smaller one advertising their own services

      • LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Nah the savings came from reduced olives. Olives are expensive, it costs more to buy an olive than to fly it on a plane.

        • erp@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          If you roll an average of 2.37 Cavendish bananas length of duct tape between your index and middle finger, you can make a sticky booger ball that tastes like an olive (or maybe boogers, depending on your pH and relative gastrointestinal ‘transit time’). As a limited time offer it also removes warts!

          • dutchkimble@lemy.lol
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            1 month ago

            Pro tip: When the airline supplies that, you can add your own boogers for a more authentic taste and you can bring as many as you can, they don’t count towards your cabin luggage weight limit. The one trick airlines DON’T want you to know.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Or, they could focus on making their flights as comfortable and stress free as possible, make flying a pleasure again, and fewer loonies will lose it. Imagine if we all had a good experience flying?

      • inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Ticket prices originally used to be fixed by the goverment, which made airlines try to offer the best experince as a way to attract customers. But then lobbyists chanted “deregulation” enough times and airlines could set their own prices. Which of course started a race to the bottom where the way to attract customers was now to slash costs. It’s a big reason how back in the 50s being a commercial airline pilots or flight attendent was prestigious profession, became today where most of a flight crew, pilot included, qualify for SNAP.

        • Solemn@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 month ago

          I’m not exactly a deregulation fan, but this race to the bottom also democratized access to air travel. When the prices were fixed, they weren’t exactly fixed at anything near the cheap prices we have now (when adjusted for inflation).

          • Thetimefarm@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            Yeah exactly, people talk about how flying used to be so glamorous like it’s somehow not the same as international first class is today. I walked through the first class section on a transatlantic flight once and they had fully reclining lazy boy style seats with blankets and nice food/booze. All the seats were staggered so they could fully recline and had privacy screens you could draw shut. But those tickets are thousands of dollars, like $1000-$1500/hour of flight time at minimum, if you want to spend 20k USD you can basically cross the ocean in a flying hotel.

      • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        make flying a pleasure again

        With all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? Flying has never been “a pleasure”. Back in the 70’s it was basically low altitude turbulence all the way from point A to point B, in a tube full of cigarette smoke.

        Planes have only gotten more comfortable over time. Higher altitudes mean smoother and faster trips. Better cabin pressurization has made physical side effects of flying, like gastric issues, headaches, and fatigue far less of a problem. Better rules and processes have been introduced to make the flight nicer and safer. Seat size and leg space can be pretty limited, but I’ve never encountered anything completely unacceptable in my many times flying.

        I think it’s obvious what the problem is: Americans. We fucking suck. Planes are the same all over the world, and yet America has the lion’s share of the nightmare passenger stories, because we have an attitude problem.

        This was a 2h40m flight from Dallas to Charlotte. I don’t think you can blame the plane for this passenger’s downright animalistic attitude towards airline staff during a short flight.

        • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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          Seat size and leg space can be pretty limited, but I’ve never encountered anything completely unacceptable in my many times flying.

          Tell me you’re under six feet tall without telling me you’re under six feet tall.

          The headrests don’t hit my head, my knees are jammed into the seat in front of me, the tray table sits directly on my thighs, and if I get a leg cramp I just have to sit there in pain because I can’t straighten my legs or stand up straight in the cabin. But the good news is I can see everything everyone in front of me is doing on their screens.

          Honestly I’d be happier in a coffin in the cargo hold.

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Yeah, I hear you. The worst is those damn non-adjustable headrests digging into your back. Cant put the tray table down flat because my knees are there and can’t move my knees because there’s no place else for my legs to go

        • JamesTBagg@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          You’re right but wrong about how comfortable flying used to be.
          Flying used to be heavily regulated and was heavily subsidized by air mail contracts. Aircraft were roomier and much more comfortable. After some trust and monopoly busting, and deregulation, the loss of air mail contracts, then share holders took more control.
          Then over the years prices have declined, leg room has declined, comfort has declined, passengers are now treated like sardines, being flight crew used to be a glamorous, sought-after job. We still romanticize PanAm. Now AA attendants are looking to strike because they’re making poverty wages.
          You can find stories of nightmare passengers and crews from all over the world if you look, but Americans are going to hear American news. I studied aeronautics and aviation in college. Hard to explain more from my phone while I’m pooping, but yes, flying used to be a MUCH better experience for all involved.

          • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            These are decent points, but…

            being flight crew used to be a glamorous, sought-after job.

            lmao, yeah, do some research on how flight attendants were treated by the industry through the 90’s and tell me things are worse for flight crew today with a straight face.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Back in the 70’s ….

          Were you there? Maybe I’m looking back with rose colored glasses and with my parents taking care of all the details, but yes, flying cut rate People’s Express was a much more luxurious flight than pretty much all the “normal” airlines now. There was elbow and leg room (yes, I was almost fully grown), window passengers could see out the windows, plenty of overhead bin space and included checked bags, not overcrowded as hell, a family could get seats together without paying tons extra, much easier process dealing with security and paperwork, flight attendants that could smile and even give you the full can of soda if you were thirsty, you didn’t have to get to the airport so far ahead, you could bring your own toiletries and didn’t have to take off shoes or belts. Yes, flying even the cheapest carrier then was much better than full priced now. There’s reasons we didn’t have as many loonies

          • erp@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Maybe I’m just physically intimidating, or a braggart, but I always get the full can of soda

            The legroom may force me to drink it with my knees above my head, but still, chalk up a win for the common man

        • Caboose12000@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Americans. We fucking suck. Planes are the same all over the world, and yet America has the lion’s share of the nightmare passenger stories, because we have an attitude problem.

          I don’t really believe this is true. I mean we Americans do suck for other reasons, but I think the reason we have more bad plane stories is because we have to fly more. You can take trains across most of Europe, but passenger trains suck in the US, and it doesn’t seem like either side of the political isle is really interested in fixing it.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          From the stories online, EU has similar race to the bottom) airlines, like Ryan Air, but maybe the difference is having a national carrier that you can take pride in. In the US, pretty much all airlines are “race to the bottom” cattle cars, and the only question is whether you want a bad carrier or a worse one. Can I have British Air or Iceland Air, or Emirates Air, please?

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        It sure feels like this happens a hell of a lot more often now than when I was a kid back in the 80s or even a teen and young adult in the 90s. If that turns out to be statistically the case (it may just be that it’s reported on more often), it doesn’t seem like enough is being done to mitigate it.

        • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Way way more people fly now than back then. Like 4xs as much. Things like this will also be reported basically right away and go viral. I’m sure they had unruly passengers in the past, but the increase in people flying has increased the number of shitty adults flying as well.

          • Quokka@quokk.au
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            1 month ago

            Not to mention everyone has a camera in their pocket whereas before no one would believe you or be able to share the story far.

      • Red_October@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        That option still exists, and the cost for such a luxury exists too. But you don’t fly First Class, do you? Or do you like so many other people look at the price first and pick the flight the one that costs $20 less than the next cheapest?

        Relax, I do it too.

        Consumers are a lot more sensitive to price than they are quality. We don’t book the $800 flight when there’s another one for $300, and then we complain about how we’re crammed into narrow seats with our knees packed against the seat in front of us. The airline that can turn a profit on a cheaper seat will fill those seats.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          I’m actually outgrowing that.

          • When I was concerned about lowest possible price, I also figured I was stuck with what I paid for.
          • Now I’m willing to pay a little extra. My last flight I paid for reserved seats, premium economy, and to a direct flight

          But airlines have seriously raised prices here, much more than the basic seats, partly by charging for each item individually. Why do reserved seats, non-painful leg room and direct flight add $100 to my ticket? At least two of those, maybe all three, used to be basic service.

          Even just charging for checked baggage is a serious issue in people’s level of frustration. I know the goal is to make more money by carrying more freight, and I don’t usually check baggage so why am I paying for other people’s baggage. However the reality is the fiasco with overhead bin space is directly related to charging for checked baggage. There are always people carrying on more than there’s space. There’s always people taking the first overhead bin since they can’t count on one near their seat. And of course half the passengers don’t seem to understand their baggage still fits if they turn it 90°. Sure people are self-centered idiots, but airlines are doing their share of making this yet one more frustrating part of air travel, by making everyone avoid checking baggage

        • erp@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          That hideous alien creature on the wing during a storm? Me. That’s me. I saved 19 bucks on my ticket and got TWO bags of peanuts on standby! The peanuts blew away one by one somewhere over Iowa but I had beef jerky backup, as all responsible travelers do.

          That guy stuffed into a 1970’s Samsonite in the unpressurized baggage hold? Also me.

          One time I mailed myself through USPS. If it fits it ships flat rate!! It hurt when I got drop-kicked onto a porch though. More emotionally than anything else.

      • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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        There’s no demand for that. All evidence shows that people will sacrifice pretty much everything to get a cheaper flight. I think we as a society have simply accepted that flying is a miserable experience that we put up with to get where we’re going. A few hours of suffering for an amazing week in paradise (every vacationer’s dream).

    • Serinus@lemmy.world
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      There’s really not enough space. Every bit is used. When was the last time you were on a commercial flight?

    • BurnedDonut@ani.social
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      As long as they don’t have the option to make the offenders walk the plank no self respecting airline CEO would allow there to be a brig.

  • Crackhappy@lemmy.world
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    Yeah… this woman deserved what she got. You cannot threaten the safety of everyone around you and then later go “oh poor me”. No… FUCK you.

    Edit: I must correct myself here. I misread the title of the post and thought she was using the FAA. Nope. They’re suing her to collect on the fines they already levied. Again. Fuuuuuck her. She should get a significant penalty for being a goddam dickhead.

  • dank@lemmy.today
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    You should know that it is physically impossible to open the cabin door of an airliner at altitude. Cabin doors are designed so that one must first pull the door in to unlatch it. This requires overcoming a pressure differential of 7 psi or more. Assume a tiny 2’ x 5’ door. That equates to a surface area of 2’ x 5’ = 10 sq ft => 10 sq ft x 12" x 12" = 1,440 sq in => 1,440 sq in x 7 psi = 10,080 lbs of force. So the only way the cabin door is coming open is if the cabin is not pressurized, which normally means the plane is climbing to altitude after takeoff or descending for landing. If you are at altitude and the cabin is not pressurized, you will soon pass out unless you are wearing an emergency oxygen mask. The lack of pressure differential means no one would be sucked out of the plane; it would just be extremely windy.

    So if someone tries to open the cabin door in the middle of your flight at altitude, just sit back and enjoy the show.

    • Humana@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Boeing™ is committed to innovative solutions to problems like opening a cabin door mid flight

      • CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        So the plug actually opened as the pressure differential was switching from positive to negative (the cabin pressure was lower than the atmospheric pressure). If it was already at altitude the plug would have stayed in place. But due to the missing fasteners the switch between pressures knocked it loose.

        • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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          That’s a load of horseshit. The plane was at ~5 kilometers when the door plug blew out. The cabin pressure was absolutely higher than the outside atmospheric pressure. Furthermore, the way the door plugs are mounted in those Boeing models, there’s absolutely nothing that guarantees for them to stay in place against cabin pressure. The only thing keeping them in place is the latches to which the door plug should be fastened with bolts.

  • Zozano@aussie.zone
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    1 month ago

    I think the cabin crew need to have an emergency straight jacket in case of loonies. Duct tape does seem rather archaeic.

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    One of the ‘tells’ of mental illness in airplane passenger stories is business class. People experiencing manic episodes tend to take luxury options regardless of means.

    It really sucks, and I’m sure red flags were present in the terminal if anyone paid attention.

    On the plus side, she was probably hospitalized after the emergency landing, she may not be liable.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      Maybe it’s people already miserable from the crowding, the stress, the cavity search, the paperwork, the worry about getting bumped, the lack of space, the lack of freedom to even move, the lack of elbow and knee space, all the wasted ti e of getting there hours ahead of time, will their toothpaste get flagged as a threat, etc …… just trying for a little peace and comfort, willing to pay a little more to get it, but no

      • Gennadios@lemmy.world
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        I’ve worked an ER servicing a major airport for years, I’ve seen tons of people like this lady come through. The vast majority of berzerk passenger syoroes involve first or business class passengers. That statement comes feom experience. 'Maybe’s are like assholes, everyone has them.

      • figjam@midwest.social
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        1 month ago

        I agree but all those frustrations don’t proceed in a logical fashion to opening the door at 30000 feet.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          Sure none of that turns people into loonies by itself. However airlines need to start taking responsibility for how miserable they make the experience - when you’re making even sane people miserable, trying everyone’s patience, certainly someone with a few screws loose is going to have them entirely fall out. It’s inevitable, and the blame should not be entirely on the loonies (mostly, but airlines should be charged as accessories)

    • The_v@lemmy.world
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      Yeah the lack of criminal charges indicates that it was a manic episode. She probably spent several weeks in a mental health ward. Otherwise she would have been charged for the abuse to the flight attendants and others.

      She also likely had a ton of drugs in her system as well as the booze. People undergoing manic episodes will take about anything.

      I am not so sure about the FAA fines. The U.S. civil court system is inherently unjust. There are many draconian rules that punish the mentally ill and impoverished.

      • DontMakeMoreBabies@lemm.ee
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        I’m a bit annoyed at the lack of charges unless she was criminally incompetent. We need to be empathetic to folks with mental illness but not every bipolar person does this shit, ‘batshit’ doesn’t mean ‘incompetent,’ and a disability doesn’t negate consequences.

        I imagine a lot of these people with serious MH issues would’ve been killed (by someone) back in the day. Now we just deal with them. But that doesn’t mean we should just ignore what they do and give them a free pass to commit crimes.

      • Serinus@lemmy.world
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        Doesn’t altitude help too?

        Regardless there’s no amount of plastered that’ll get me to bite people on a flight.

    • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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      If she took a Xanax to relax before the flight and then had a Jack, she could be unaware of the integration between benzos and alcohol.

      One drink can put you into black out territory on benzos.

  • irotsoma@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Sounds like she had some kind of violent allergic reaction to the drink or had taken some sedatives or other medications that might have caused a bad reaction. Or maybe just before the flight she drank a whole bunch and it just hadn’t hit her yet. I can’t see a single drink doing that, even for someone with a phobia or trauma. Hope that if it was something she had no control over, they’ll at least take that into account. But if it was a mix of sedatives or she really was that drunk, then yeah, totally throw the book at her.

  • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
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    The woman is clearly mentally ill, and instead of sending her off to the loony bin for the help she needs, the reaction is to fuckin SUE her?

    How’s that going to help?

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      It was hidden in the article between all of the annoying ads, but the FAA fined her after the incident, and it looks like she hasn’t paid up, so the lawsuit is to enforce the fine. She’s hasn’t been charged with anything which is probably why the FAA needs to file a civil lawsuit to enforce the fine.

        • dhork@lemmy.world
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          I agree, it’s not helping her, but the FAA is just a Federal agency so I doubt they can do much else. I’m surprised she wasn’t criminally charged, I’m sure that sort of behavior is against some law. Maybe she just has the white circumstances to avoid legal trouble.

  • jaschen@lemm.ee
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    1 month ago

    She is suing?!?! She is lucky she isn’t tried for attempted murder for trying to open the airplane door in mid flight!!