There’s a lot of ‘either-or’ fallacy going on here.
You can be pissed off at Biden and Harris for their enabling genocide; angry at the DNC for making the same mistakes again and again that keep opening the door to fascism, recognize Trump as the worst case scenario, vote for Harris despite the bullshit above cuz she was the clear lesser evil, be angry at other voters for either overtly supporting fascism or allowing it to win in some self-defeating act of defiance, and recognize that people are burnt the fuck out and drew the line at both sides supporting genocide to just clock out and let the world burn cuz nothing else is working.
Pointing your finger at any one person or concept isn’t going to accomplish shit. We’re dealing with a system that’s absolutely saturated with compounding failures.
The solution? I don’t fucking know. Probably nothing Lemmy’s TOS would allow us to discuss. But two or three it fifty etc things can be true at the same time, and what we DON’T need to be doing is fragmenting communities that see eye to eye 99% of the time - that’ll just package ourselves up in little bite sized pieces for the fucking Nazis to steamroll like they did the last time.
It’s wild to me that we’re having a discussion about Israel in these comments, voters told us exactly what their major concerns were and they were economic and it wasn’t even close. Foreign policy, trans issues, etc are all hot button topics easy to argue over but voters felt the economy was bad and that’s the biggest reason Trump won.
29% - Ending Israel’s violence in Gaza
24% - The economy
12% - Medicare and Social Security
11% - Immigration and border security
10% - Healthcare
9% - Abortion policy
5% - Don’t knowExcept these people didn’t decide the election, because almost nobody who voted where it matters did this and if every one of them had shown up the outcome would have been the same. Across the six states that flipped from 2020 to 2024, Harris lost less than 80,000 votes combined. She was less than a percent off Biden’s record setting performance. Trump gained more than 800,000 votes in the same places. The block that decided the election was not Democrats ‘staying home,’ it was independant and irregular voters showing up—for Trump.
She got 7 million fewer votes than Biden.
Now I’m not saying the economy wasn’t important, I’m just countering the claim that “it wasn’t even close” - it clearly was.
I don’t directly blame Biden though.
The blame falls first and foremost on the DNC. It’s likely that if they hadn’t overtly sabotaged Sanders, Trump wouldn’t have even had a first term, much less a second.
I blame Biden for his administration’s unwavering support of Israel’s ongoing genocide campaign. That 100% depressed voter turnout.
Fuck people who didn’t vote over that. Like it or not, we have a two party system, and not voting was a vote for the current state of affairs.
Like it or not, those people have the right not to vote. Pressure your 2 parties to have less shit choices or that will continue
The parties don’t see not voting as pressure to change. They see it as permission to not give a shit about your opinion. Get progressives.to run in Democratic primaries then turn out to vote them onto the ticket for the general.
I saw a couple heavily down voted articles that said that was the largest issue and around 30% of people who voted Biden 2020 but didn’t vote 2024 gave that as their reason.
It’s fucking insane so many people immediately started denying that was the biggest issue
The stupidity is with these fools thinking Trump would be better for Palestinians.
If it wasn’t obvious with Trump moving the embassy to Jeruselum and telling Bibi to, “Finish the job” while privately meeting with Bibi to likely stall a ceasefire agreement pre-election to make Democrats look back, Trump definitely is fully enabling of said Genocide, likely making it worse (eg, you think he would’ve pressed for a humanitarian aid route into Gaza? FUCK no.)
So then the logical thing to say in an inevitable binary-choice election is: “if Trump and Biden/Harris are equally bad on Israel/Palestine policy (they’re not), is Biden/Harris better on other issues, notably domestically, like oh I don’t know women’s rights and climate change?” You bet your ass.
Hence why couch sitters and Stein voters piss me off far more than Trump supporters, themselves; for they should know better. Yet they fell for the online astroturfing disinfo wars. Drank the Russian vodka.
Big? Sure. Biggest? No. Biggest was “the economy”. It’s practically a law of nature that inflation ends governments.
No, it beat the economy.
I’ll try to find it
Edit:
According to the poll, 29% of that voter group said “ending Israel’s violence in Gaza” was the “most important issue” for them in the election.
Gaza was followed by the economy (24%), medicare and society security (12%), immigration and border security (11%), healthcare (10%) and abortion policy (9%).
I wasn’t thinking so specifically about Biden voters who stayed home in 24. I see that’s what you were talking about initially.
If you simply ask everyone who voted for Trump, the economy was the top issue. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/13/what-trump-supporters-believe-and-expect/
That’s all I was saying. But there are, I think, three groups which it would be interesting to have this answer for. The first is the one you mentioned. The other two are people who voted for Biden and switched to Trump, and people who chose not to vote in 2020 and voted for Trump in '24. I couldn’t find those answers readily.
Better not vote for the Kamala because she “supports” genocide. I’ll just sit back and let the guy that said he’d let Isreal wipe Palestine off the map win. That be much better, and I can lir to myself that I didn’t take part in a system that gave us these two choices.
This is a great example of why Democrats lost: feeling entitled to votes. You don’t get someone’s vote just because the other guy is worse, you have to get the vote out by convincing people you will help them. “Stop whining about drowning in debt and the rising COL, the economy is great” obviously didn’t do that. Better double down on it and call everyone morons, I guess.
Do you disagree, was voter turnout for Democrats not low? Or are you being sarcastic because you can’t address the content?
I’m pretty sure I directly addressed it. I don’t even know why you would think I was implying turnout wasn’t low. Fucking weird.
You didn’t directly address anything, you deflected legitimate criticism of the dnc to criticize voters.
Since subtext isn’t your thing I’ll spell it out. If you sit out elections you’re a fucking idiot. If you didn’t vote for Kamala because she didn’t explicitly state she’d stop the genocide you effectively enabled someone that stated they would speed up the genocide. Again, a fucking moron. Sitting out an election does not remove you from the system.
Good job sending the DNC a message. I’m sure all the harm coming from the Republicans controlling everything for a minimum of two years will be totally worth it, and the DNC will definitely move in the direction you want them to.
I’m not even a Democrat or Liberal, but y’all need to live in the system we have and not the system you want.
Fuck’s sake.
The election was 2 months ago. Stop hinging everything on something that happens once every 2 years, because there’s nothing more to be done about it now. Kamala wasn’t going to do shit to stop the genocide, and voters showed that it was an extremely important issue that the democratic candidate failed to differentiate on.
Now we have a Trump presidency, paved by the DNC, again. What are you going to do to fight back?
